Why the hell did you move to France in the first place then?
A report in today’s Guardian states that, due to the strength of the euro against the pound, hundreds of Britons living in France are now using the internet to order their food, including many French specialities, from British supermarkets. According to the Guardian, Simon Goodenough, the director of Sterling Shopping, a delivery firm based in Brackley, Northamptonshire, says “We deliver food from Waitrose, Sainsbury’s and Marks and Spencer, but by far the biggest is Asda…We have seen croissants and baguettes in people’s shopping bags. And we have delivered bottles of Bergerac wine bought from Sainsbury’s to a customer in Bergerac.”
Now do not get me wrong, I am clearly aware that the cost of living in France is high, especially for someone on a low income or living off of a pension that has seen its value reduced. But seriously, purchasing baguettes or croissants from a UK supermarket is pure madness. The culture of the boulangerie and patisserie is all about individuality and skill, about quality and taste. No UK supermarket will produce the kind of croissant one can buy from just along the road, or, indeed, the quality of baguette from France’s award-winning boulanger. And the cost? One euro and ten cents for the baguette – hardly breaks the bank does it? Wine too. You would have to be a complete nuthead, and highly ignorant to boot, to import French wine. A reasonable wine will cost around €5 in France, but little under £10 for the equivalent in the UK.
But cost is not the only issue here. Culture and local business is too. Why then did these Brits travel to France in the first place? I have been surprised by the expats from the US and their enthusiasm for French culture, their wish and desire to learn the language and assimilate themselves in the day-to-day in France. So much so that I, slow to learn, feel a little guilt at not having made an equal amount of effort. Indeed there are many US-led websites devoted to French culture and cuisine, with contributions by both American and French authors, celebrating the diversity and quality of produce. Some links to these sites are on my Blogroll on the left and well worth a look.
If we were to follow the Guardian example of someone like Nikki Bundy, 41, who has lived near Périgueux in the Dordogne with her family for four years, and admittedly does “try and buy my fresh fruit and veg in France” but “most other things I now buy from Asda”, then we would be helping to destroy the very thing that holds France together. Cuisine is such an important part of French culture, it is in food that both diversity and unity are to be found. In a country that has many racial and economic differences, it is the bars, restaurants, brasseries, boulangeries, markets and family dinner tables where common ground is to be found. In the UK many communities are fighting for the return of the small independent producer and high street shop; fighting against the advancing, market led, supermarket chain that sucks the lifeblood out of the heart of any town centre. Do not let us continue to bring our evil over here. In Paris supermarket chains and independent shops tend to coexist, but in other more provincial areas, the out-of-town supermarket has already created too many ghost towns.
Bundy goes on to rub salt in to the wound by adding: “There’s just so much more variety in UK supermarkets.” Has she ever been to a French supermarket!? She must clearly mean that there is more variety of British products in a British supermarket, because for her to miss the aisles devoted to cheese and only cheese, aisles of various meats and saucissons, aisles of fresh fish, aisles of locally produced and better tasting fruit and vegetables, aisles devoted enirely to yogurt, Mrs Bundy would need to have her eyes up her arse. And that is just the supermarket, we must not forget the independent shops – the butchers, the fishmongers, the grocers or indeed all the local markets that spring up to sell seasonal fruit and veg.
It is unfair to pick on Mrs Bundy only, but unfortunately the Guardian article quotes her in particular and she has come out with some corkers – for instance: “I have heard a few British friends saying things like we should be supporting local shops, but there are just so many Britons here doing this now that everyone is overwhelmingly in favour of it. I don’t think many French people know we are doing this yet, so I’m not sure what they think really.” Well I can tell you what they think Mrs Bundy, but I suspect you already know, that you are in denial and that you do not really want to live in France, you just want a bit of France to be exactly like the UK, only nicer.
I am going to sum up this rant with one last quote in the Guardian article by Debbie Beards, 48, who has lived in the Dordogne with her husband and four teenage children since moving from Poole, Dorset, six years ago. She says she is only using the delivery facility from the UK to supplement the food bought from her local French supermarket and village shops with “comfort foods from home”. I have to admit that I am no angel and regularly buy Cathedral City from the supermarket just for my cheese and tomato on toast; but if it was not available I would happily use a French cheese instead and I am not saying that buying a little taste of home is wrong. I am saying that purchasing all your groceries from the UK is wrong. On the whole I have found that food and produce is so good in France that one does not even get a chance to miss ‘comfort foods from home’. I do not even know what that means, what would one miss anyway? What is UK cuisine? Pizza? Italian and available in France. Burger? American and very popular in France. Meet and veg? A staple meal in France anyway. Pasta? Again Italian and everywhere. Sausage, egg and chips? Chips or frites are huge in France, and you can get bacon if you try, sausage is available everywhere. Sushi? Japanese and everywhere, as is Chinese and Indian.
In my experience the best cuisine I ever had in the UK was by chefs who were French trained. In my experience the nicest meals I have ever had were the cheapest and simplest, using fresh ingredients, all available seasonally and locally in France. There is absolutely no need to buy produce from the UK and ship it overseas. Yes, PG Tips is more expensive over here, but, for goodness sake, it is shit tea! Tea is increasingly popular in France, so visit one of the many salon de thé and indulge in a decent cuppa for a change. Like anywhere one can easily spend a lot of money in the supermarket on just a couple of bags of shopping. But, like anywhere, it is possible to shop and cook on a budget and to eat a good, balanced diet without reverting to Asda. A little common sense and culinary skill goes a long way, as does the wish and desire to integrate into another culture. It seems clear that Mrs Bundy, though living in France, does not have French friends if she is unaware of what they think. That is not the way to live in another country.
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I have lived in the Loire Valley for the past five years. I’m reasonably well integrated with many French friends. I miss the comfort foods from the UK, and I travel back once or twice a year (finances permitting) to stock up on stuff. There’s absolutely no shame in that whatsoever as far as I’m concerned. I shop at Asda when in the UK and I adore tea made with PG Tips. I can’t abide the flaky infusions that pass for a good cuppa here! Am I a bad expat? I couldn’t care less. I’m an expat who adores where he lives, among French neighbours who accept us for what we are. Especially when we meet in the queues at SuperU, or in the village boulangerie.
Everyone’s different. C’est la vie, n’est ce pas?
Hi Stu
Thank you for your comment, but that is exactly what I admitted to as well, re my love of English cheddar. I am clearly not saying that buying ‘any’ UK products is shameful, but what I am condemning is the ignorance that leads some to bypass the local economy and ship in bulk loads of, quite frankly, appalling UK supermarket produce.
Not only is the quality awful but ultimately it will have a detrimental effect on local life and local business – some of the very things that would have attracted expats to move in the first place.
Shame about the PG
Richard
Hi Richard. I don’t consider anyone by-passing the local economy as being shameful at all. I see it as a question of logistics and of survival. I will not be bullied into believeing I’m in the wrong for wanting to cut down horrendous costs here. If I can save money by buying from the UK or anywhere else, then that’s what I’ll do.
Neither do I believe that the quality of goods bought in the UK supermarkets is awful either. Just as I don’t believe that french cuisine is the best thing since, er….well, since sliced bread!
It isn’t. But, I didn’t move to France for the cuisine, nor the cheeses, nor the weather, nor the lifestyle. I saw an opportunity to buy and run a business that would have been way out of reach in the UK. That was and still is my prime reason for being here. When I’m sick of it, we’ll sell and consider all other options.
As I said, c’est la vie.
Well it’s not for me to moralise and there are plenty of better qualified people out there who would find an ethical problem with your ‘discount shopping’. But I suspect that if your experience of UK supermarket produce is a good one, that unless you spend loads at Waitrose or Harrods, you really have been unlucky with French produce and French cuisine; because there really is no comparison.
No one is ‘bullying’ you Stu, it is your choice and your choice alone, though I would argue that you are able to buy cheaper UK supermarket goods precisely because the supermarkets hold such a monopoly that they bully UK farmers into selling farmed produce for peanuts.
Or maybe food just isn’t that important for you and that’s fine too. If France, for you, just represents a business opportunity then I suspect that entrepreneurship is what drives you and not travel or cultural diversity.
I agree, c’est la vie…
Richard, you’d be completely wrong on all counts.
To qualify the ‘bullying’ comment. It’s attitudes such as ‘you should go back to the UK if you don’t like the food/weather/prices/beans/people here in France’ that I talk of. It isn’t Utopia here, it’s hard work and there are many people that miss ‘comfort’ stuffs from their home country. Their views shouldn’t be dismissed as being ‘unpatriotic’ to their country of domicile, that’s silly.
Why, in times of hardship worldwide is there an ‘ethical’ dilemma over buying cheap? I certainly don’t see one. You say there’s something wrong in not supporting your local community. Where do you buy your milk from? Do you buy it from carrefour, or fresh from the farm that supplies Carrefour? If you can say honestly that you buy it from the farmer, to give him the right and proper profit for his hard work, then fine. If however, you buy from Carrefour at their hugely inflated prices, with their bulk-buying power that leads to the farmer pouring his milk down the drains, then you’re a hypocrite.
My experiences of UK shopping has always been the same. I’ve rarely had to refuse anything I’ve bought because of the quality. I’ve bought lettuces in SuperU that have been crawling with maggots. I’ve bought out of date meat, still on display in the coolers in Carrefour. I’ve bought countless clothing garments that have disintegrated on use. The sooner everyone ditches the rose-tinted specs and realises that France too has its problems, the better.
I honestly have never bought into the theory that food starts and ends with french cuisine, because it simply isn’t true. There’s fantastic food to be found all over the world (including fish & chips). Much of the food you buy in restaurants here is overpriced and oversold. Just the same as it probably is in the UK. I’ve had good meals and bad meals in lots of countries, but I love english food the best.
Great thread, interesting comments too, but please don’t let’s degenerate into silliness, that France is better than anywhere else to live because it’s France. It isn’t, it’s just somewhere else that’s different, that’s all.
There are less and less things I miss form the UK and I wouldn’t dream of paying to have thing shipped over. I love going back to visit friends and family and then I indulge in some very British favourites – just as I loved visiting France and eating French food when I came on holiday. Now I live here and after 8 years I have managed to source everything we need here.
Thanks Enid, me too and I cannot wait to taste some of my Mum’s cooking – it has been a while now…
I was astounded to read this article. I have been trying to move to France for the past 3 years and although born in the UK, my mother and grandmother were French.
Many expatriates who return to the UK on visits state that they like the slower pace and quality of life in France and are reminded of the consumer orientated media run influences that surround them once more upon their return. Many ex-pats say they long to return to France after their visits to get away from this.
So why then, having escaped this fast food, flat screen TV, buy a new sofa for Christmas, Easter, or any other spurious marketing reason, allow yourself to be ‘voluntarily’ caught up in it again, but more culpably so, by trying export one of the very concepts you wished to escape from – into a country that has always tried extremely hard to remain loyal to its own heritage (of which good quality home grown food and cuisine is an important part).
On a recent visit to Mirepoix (SW F) I was appalled to see the most recent ex-pat shop just off the beautiful medieval village square, selling the ‘sought after’ tea bags and cheddar and marmite.
Why do we insist on doing this? We moan about shops filled with Halal and Polish goods in the UK and the numbers of immigrants who wish to remain in the UK and desire different cultures, religions, schooling, rules to accommodate their needs. We moan that we are losing our national heritage. Some of us then move to countries where we believe we will not be beset with these problems to the extent that the UK has.
And now this – importing food from Asda and Waitrose to France! This takes hypocrisy to a new level!
I have lived in Europe and the Middle East and admit that I have occasionally missed food items I enjoyed in the UK and I have travelled back from home visits with some of these items as a treat.
If you miss UK food and home comforts that much, why not stay in the UK, have all the cheddar and tea bags you want, and just have your holidays in France – but self-catering of course – so you can take your food items with you!
Hey – don’t pick on the cheddar – it’s from Carrefour you know
What a bizarre rant from this man! Many of us Brits have moved to France for lots of reasons other than just the food and there is no shame in missing a few items from home. Too many have been caught out by huge rises in prices here and shops simply do not offer the same discounts and promotions as in the Uk (some multi-packs even cost more than the individual items on occasions!).
When I returned from the UK last Christmas I was well stocked up with not only food items, but also various toiletries – at nearly 4€ for a can of deodorant here when I could buy two for £2.99 in the UK I cannot afford the luxury of shopping locally.
Regarding the price of a baguette, at 1,10€ – assuming a family would go through two a day, every day it does mount up and yes, could well break the bank for many families!
I can only assume that Mr. Brooks is considerably better of than many of us who are having to conduct our family shopping as economically as we can – wherever or whatever the source.
Hi S Hepworth
I would hardly describe my rant as ‘bizarre’, but you disagree and that’s fine. A couple of points though:
1. Again – I said quite clearly that missing items from home is not shameful and I admitted to that myself;
2. Baguettes are items made by local artisans – to buy the equivalent in taste and quality one would have to spend more in a UK supermarket. You can buy cheap bread too for general use, or eat less of it;
3. To assume that I am better off than many expats would be very very wide of the mark, let me assure you.
Just for the record I live in a very economically varied area of the 18e in Paris. People of all situations source their bread locally, the rich and the poor. I didn’t move here for the food either but for love, and it only makes sense for me to respect the local culture and integrate as much as possible – and that means living and eating like a local. I am aware that toiletries can be plus cher, but I budget for these items and, yes, I will purchase one or two the next time I visit friends and family in the UK. Shopping locally and buying plenty of fruit and veg can actually reduce your shopping bill.
Well, Mr Brooks
I have to agree with one response to your article, who described it as a ‘rant’. I would add that it is also both an extensive and, in places, an abusive rant.
I have chosen to live in France because I love France and its way of life. I have in no way “brought England With Me”. That said, I do not feel obliged to love ALL of France, nor do I feel obliged to moronically love ALL aspects of its way of life or culture. Wherever I spend my life, I reserve my inalienable right to accept or reject anything I wish.
Concentrating the arguments on the price and quality baguettes is a ridiculous red herring. For my sins, I smoke a pipe. Because pipe tobacco is cheaper in France than the UK, I buy it here. When I lived in the UK, I travelled to France or Belgium to buy it. I felt no obligation to “support local UK shops” by buying it there. I feel no obligation to support local shops there or anywhere else. Business objectives are, in whatever form they take, about extracting as much of my money (or anyone else’s for that matter) from my pocket. No ‘if’s, no ‘but’s – that’s a fact.
When I needed to buy a second-hand car last Christmas, did I feel OBLIGED to pay the ridiculously high price I found in France? Of course I didn’t. I returned to the UK and bought one for about half the price. When I got it here and found it needed new front brake pads, did I feel OBLIGED to pay the 190 euros I was asked for them in France? Of course I didn’t – I got the exact same product from the UK for £32. When making enquiries about insuring this car in France, I was quoted 600 euros for basic (i.e. ‘third party’) cover from a French insurer. Did I feel obliged to pay that sum, when I actually insured it through a UK insurer for £320? Of course I didn’t.
I could, but won’t, go on and on, because that will constitute a rant. I, like many others, need to maximise the value for (limited) money, whether I’m in France or in Timbuctoo. May I suggest that you, yourself, take a very close look at all the items you buy and determine their exact origins. You may well be very surprised! They’ll be far from ‘All Made in France’.
Making the comment “What the Hell did They Come to France for” is both arrogant and offensive. Buy what you want, where you want. Let everyone else do the same, without ranting at them.
BTW I am off to make a lovely French poitrine fumée and egg baguette for lunch
I’ve lived in France for eight years and seen prices increase across the board. With a modest income and four permanently hungry kids to feed, I can’t ‘buy better’ bread or feed them less of it. I don’t do my food shopping in the UK, there is no delivery service in our area and I do belong to an AMAP. However I have absolutely no problem doing my shopping wherever is cheapest. And that is rarely France. I buy toiletries in bulk from the UK – so do my French friends who are sick of paying the ludicrous prices in french Pharmacies- the kids trampoline came from Holland, the car tyres from Germany, the Dyson from ebay…..
I also run a network fro ex-pats in France http://www.survivefrance.com and the discussion entitled “Where do you shop?” reveals that there are vast numbers of us doing the same thing. I agree that buying baguettes or wine in the UK is ridiculous and I personally wouldn’t do it, but until French supermarkets start selling white sliced bread without added sugar and for a reasonable price, people will continue to import it from elsewhere. And lets not have ‘the baguette is better’ discussion – please – after all the French buy and eat sliced bread too !
Hi Catharine
Thanks for your comment. I think your membership of an AMAP is to be congratulated and your wish to buy the cheapest, especially when you have so many mouths to feed, understandable. I have a tiny budget to survive on myself, so I try to buy the cheapest too. But I also try to buy ethically, and that means locally.
I too buy on ebay for some items. I am not suggesting we all go and buy an iPad at €100 more just because it is from a French shop, not a UK one. (Please note that I use that as an example only – I can in no way afford an iPad!). We are talking about groceries here, or at least the original article was.
Unfortunately, though I occasionally buy a cheap white boule from the supermarket, my other half, who is French, is steadfast when it comes to the baguette. So, even if you don’t want the ‘baguette is better’ discussion, Catharine, I am afraid in my case it is unavoidable; and if I were to come home with sliced white British bread (should I even want to) I would not be very popular. I think Cherry put it succinctly when she said France is “a country that has always tried extremely hard to remain loyal to its own heritage (of which good quality home grown food and cuisine is an important part).”
And just additionally – the thread on your website entitled ‘Where do you shop?’ seems mainly concerned with manufacturing and technological goods, as well as the odd larder item like curry powder. I do not see anyone buying their entire grocery shopping from Asda, rather I see many who are passionate about French food and French produce, as in the ‘Food Lovers in France’ group.
Cherry. I guess you’d think I’m a ‘bad’ expat then? No matter. I couldn’t care less. I like certain bits of French life, just as I like certain bits of UK life. Why deny myself of the chance of eating foods I grew up with, and adore just because I live in another country? We’re ALL citizens of the world and affilliations like that which you possibly subscribe to promote xenophobia. Don’t they? Live and let live is still a truly potent message, and when you’ve lived in France for a while I’m sure you’ll be buying the sliced white to remind you of home!
PG Tips uber alles!
I agree with a lot of comments made so far, i think to buy all of your shopping like that would be dreadful, however due to prices etc i can understand why people would use a service like this – especially if your income is in the UK.
Some of the differences are massive I have a friend who has a baby and when she goes back to the UK she fills her car with nappies, baby milk and food and they are double to triple the price over here.
Hi Polly
Indeed, I have French friends with babies and newborns and I have no idea how they manage financially – I shall broach the subject with tact next chance I get…
Hi Richard
also if you only have 2 children you get less family allowance than you do in the UK (i think you get nothing for 1 child here but could be wrong)
more than UK if 3 or more
We have lived in France for over 5years and i agree with Stu, I love living in France but do miss things from the UK mainly chedder cheese. I have lots of French friends, in fact very few English friends if i’m honest. I do agree that to do all of your shopping this way would be dreadful, however if the person earns there money in the UK why should they not spend some of it there, surely everyone has a choice to buy things where they want.
I do agree re the french bread and wine is just mental and i can’t understand why anyone would do that.
Talking about wine though have English people in the UK not been coming over to France (Calais) for years to stock up with cheap wine and beer, nobody minds the UK residents spending there money here, or the holiday makers who fill there cars with wine etc at the end of their holidays.
Also what about the guys/girls who live and work in the UK and support families over here sending most of their wages over to France.
On a different note unfortunately my son has had head lice on and off for over 8 weeks now, we have tried everything including shaving off most of his hair, today again i have been and spent nearly 27€ on products at the pharmacy to treat the families hair again. Out of curiosity i decided to have a look online to see how much this would be in Asda for example – and it was £3.42
Whereas my take on the Guardian article was really one of cultural integration and assimilation, or lack of it, the following link is to another Guardian article that addresses the logistical absurdity of global delivery and demand:
Cross-channel shopping is the ultimate food miles madness
Which reminds me of a trip to a fishmonger on the south coast of England. This fishmonger was literally on the harbour edge but the local fresh fish was all sold to restaurants and supermarkets. The fish they had on sale was imported frozen fish from Greece…
Hi kjs
Another cheddar cheese fanatic
I have money tied up in the UK, but if I spend over there then I usually pay the penalty on delivery – I don’t get to return often enough to spend in person, and then the travel expense would outweigh any benefit anyway. I also make many purchases online and find that the price differences are usually so small that I may as well purchase in France for a more convenient delivery.
I think English people coming to France to buy French wine is a different thing altogether – perhaps if it was British beer they were buying then the analogy would work. Same with working overseas too – I think it works both ways.
As for pharmaceutical products – yes they’re expensive. I understand that if you are in the French system then prescriptions are reimbursed to some extent and, honestly, my experience of the health care over here has been eye-opening – in good and bad ways.
I had head lice when I was a child – I remember regular use of the lice comb was the best cure…
> Polly – my other half leads me to believe that having children helps if you’re in the French tax system – think I better watch out!
My experience of the care over here was amazing !!
French system does not reimburse things like headlice stuff and have been using the comb everyday and pulling out the eggs – unfortunately kids in his class keeping giving them to him – I wonder if this is because they can not afford the stuff get rid of them
Good answer
Isn’t that the problem with kids – colds and things just keep circulating at school? Then they have the temerity to pass them on to us adults and the circle goes round again…
The title of this article was Why the hell did you move to France then….. and to all the people who long for Asda’s food range, find treating head lice more expesive here, can buy baby’s products cheaper in uk, or feel the need to whinge about anything else, then read the title again. Why the hell did you move to France then?
Just enjoy what France has to offer, dont try to change it into the country you have gone to great lengths to leave. If you can’t do that, get back to the rat race and be happy.
Hi Tom
That’s very diplomatic of you, but thanks for your comment
Actually Tom. I did read the title. I read the whole ‘rant’. You’re missing the point. Who says we’re only allowed to move to, and live in France only if we shun the very idea of having imported goods from Asda or anywhere else. People move all over the world for all kinds of reasons, get over it.
You’ll find that whingeing isn’t what we’re doing. It’s called ‘shopping around for the best deal’. So you’d prefer to buy your Dyson in France for in excess of €500 rather than order through Amazon at a fraction of that and change the plug when it arrives? More fool you.
For what it’s worth, I live totally in the €, I have no assets in the UK or anywhere else but here, in France.
sorry stu but i think its you who’s missing the point.. The author wasn’t talking about designer vacuum cleaners, he was talking mainly about english supermarket food versus supporting your chosen local community. Of course you can purchase whatever you like, wherever you live, but read the article again and if you find you cant do without the shite they sell in asda, ask yourself the question that the author posed in the first place. Everytime another fish and chip van turns up, or another market stall starts selling heinz baked beans, or another english jehovahs witness knocks at my door, i ask myself the same question because its getting to the point where we might as well be back in blighted blighty.. We are turning France into the place we couldn’t wait to leave. So…Why the hell did you move to France then?
I for one don’t think there’s anything wrong with fish & chip vans. Indeed, I helped one such, run by a dual nationality couple (she’s english, he’s french) set up a regular gig not too far from me. There’s a demand from the expats as well as from the french. All use the bar, and the chip van in equal and enthusiastic measure. There’s nothing wrong with the idea of fish & chips in France at all, there is something wrong with the idea that it shouldn’t get past the dockside at Dover though.
Read my contributions to this discussion again. You’ll see that I’m integrated, run a successful business here and have probably more french friends than I do english. What the author was talking about can be extrapolated to buying anything from abroad that doesn’t directly benefit the commune you live in.
I didn’t run away from anything in the UK, nor could I be accused of trying to turn France into a version of it. Kids live here, went through school here and now work here having done apprentissages here. I don’t think of my homeland as ‘blighted’ either. I just had a better opportunity here than I did there. Why’s that so wrong?
Nor have I found any market stalls in our area selling Heinz beans. But, if they did, and they were flogging ‘em at reasonable prices then yes, I’d stock up. Wouldn’t you? I’ve already answered why I chose to live here. If you actually think about what I’ve said, then maybe you’ll understand that it takes all kinds of people to make a world, not just those that subscribe to a rather blinkered view.
BTW For all you Francophiles, if you are so disposed you can purchase lovely black and white film photographs from me – made by hand here or printed digitally here…
Thanks for looking
> Stu
I have chips or frites from a van in les Ardennes, in Donchery to be exact, and I have had an Americain from there too – a big hotdog with chips and sauce on top. It has become a tradition in that part of the world too, and locals to that area have taken delight in introducing me to ‘their’ cuisine. Buying fish and chips from a local French business is not the same as importing frozen fish and chip ready meals from Asda.
The original Guardian article was about groceries (specifically “food surge”) and ‘taking coals to Newcastle’ and it is that point that I was discussing. I have repeated that of course it makes sense to source technology via the internet. Groceries though are a different matter and, honestly, if I saw baked beans for sale here then I wouldn’t buy them. Heinz Spaghetti, though, is a different matter. But again, buying them in France isn’t the issue, sourcing them in the UK is.
LOL! So what’s the difference between spaghetti and beans? If they’re selling them cheaper than your local supermarket of choice, then you’d be a fool not to buy them. That’s a free market economy at work Richard.
Where do you think half of the stuff that appears on the ‘aisle anglais’ in your SuperU was sourced? To me, it’s a no-brainer. €4,95 for a Fray Bentos pie in our local SuperU, or 99p at Asda.
> Stu again
I must have been writing at the same time…
I don’t condone the idea that ‘you should go back to the UK if you don’t like the food/weather/prices/beans/people here in France’ and I certainly wouldn’t use that language myself. And again I should reiterate that I too am partial to some English cheddar now and again – I’m just sorry it’s Cathedral City and not another.
There’s always an ethical issue over buying cheap. Take Primark for example – great prices, big success for French teenage girls traveling to the UK too. But for the price you’re paying Primark some poor manual laborer is being used and abused elsewhere. Honestly I’m not qualified to argue this point but do a Google search and you’ll find many who are.
Yes I buy my milk from Carrefour, and yes, in some ways, I’m a hypocrite. But, and it’s a big but, I do not import it from the UK – and that is what the discussion is all about. Like any supermarket you have to check the produce before you buy it, check the sell-by-date and that the only thing crawling on your lettuce is the odd slug.
I don’t think anyone is saying France is perfect, but, for instance, if I were to move to Japan I wouldn’t be out looking for baked beans and sliced bread, or importing it specially. No, I’d be eating fish so fresh it can be eaten raw and cuisine so good that I’ll soon have forgotten all about fish and chips.
I’ve only brought milk back from the UK before full fat cream milk was available in my local SuperU. Simply because my cereal didn’t taste right with the french semi-skimmed milk.
I didn’t say that YOU did condone the ‘you should go back to the UK if you don’t like the food/weather/prices/beans/people here in France’ argument, but there are those reading and indeed contributing to this discussion that do.
I do love Cathedral City myself, in fact – any strong cheddar such as that just knocks absolutely any cheese made by the french, in France into a cocked hat. Now, that’s MY opinion, and I reserve the right to voice it without being shouted down by the ‘get thee behind me thou vile expat’ brigade.
Again, on the subject of ethical purchasing. I’ve bought from Primark and been both happy and sad with stuff. I’ve bought Nike trainers too, as well as Lee jeans. Or, at least I believed they were Lee jeans, but probably sewn up in some sweatshop in the far east just the same. Does my conscience prick? Not really, because at least I contributed to their wages. Not enough, I agree. Poor wages and bad treatment are endemic in these places. But that’s also true of nurses in the jolly old UK isn’t it?
Anyway, my chili and crusty french bread is ready! A table, and thanks for the discussion.
PS You wouldn’t catch me anywhere near a Fray Bentos I’m afraid…
Ah! Then you’re missing out!
I’ll take your word for it but for now I have to get back to my French fresh melon and French cured ham appertiser or the missus’ll get mad…
Diesel is still cheaper in France, as is a decent baguette or any other bread for that matter. Yes, white sliced ‘pap’ is cheap in UK, but decent bread and rolls aren’t.
On visits to France upto late last year there wasn’t much I couldn’t find in a local alternative as cheaply – and most Dove products were cheaper in France.
I just wish I could find Cicona in the UK…………
Oh please. Some of us drive petrol cars. It’s expensive, more expensive than the UK now.
Some of us think that a loaf should be of a bigger size than 12 slices, and contain a crust at both ends. Some of us know that a comparable ‘loaf’ sold in the UK is both bigger and cheaper than the MaxiJac, Toastiligne rubbish alternative sold here.
Some of us don’t use Dove products. Some of us couldn’t afford Dove in the UK, never mind France!
I have a question – i agree on the whole supporting France thing if you live here and have been doing so for the last 5 years – even though in that time most of my money has come from the UK
however – how many people when they fly back use Air France – and support the French economy or how many use Ryanair – now some people might say thats not weekly – that depends if you commute like many people do and if that is the case then the wages are being spent in France to support their familes
Is it too late to add to this blog?
I moved over here to be with a French lady, good enough reason I think.
I would suspect that most of the people shopping (for food) in the UK can’t cook?
Plastic bread, baked beans, Fray Bentos pies, for goodness sakes, is that as far as your culinary outlook takes you?
I love to cook, do it every day, and decide what’s for dinner when I’ve been to the market and supermarket, and bought what looks best and what is on “Promo”.
The nearest I get to baked beans is when I make a cassoulet or something similar, and the haricots in a home made tomato sauce are a hell of a lot better than a tin of Heinz bullets.
Perhaps I am a little more integrated than most, as I don’t have a single English friend over here, so I spend my whole life in and among the French. They all love to eat with us, but I’m not so sure they would enjoy beans on plastic toast.
Whatever floats your boat…………………..;;
The main reason for people on fixed £ incomes shopping in the UK is surely economic. not cultural Anyone who wishes to buy baked beans, PG Tips, Marmite etc here can do so in any large supermarket at a price. (as I do from time to time) The cost of living here has spiraled dramatically, and I quite understand the logic of those who chose to save this way. It could mean the difference between being able to continue to live in France and not. Saving 100+ euros a month could, for example, pay your EDF bill.
Some years ago, there was a phase of French coach parties having day trips to Spain from this area (S.E. France) to go to the supermarkets because costs were so much lower. What’s the difference?
As for baguettes, I think it’s an illusion to see them as artisanal. Something like 80% of French bread is industrial these days and bakers buy it ready to bake and shove it in the oven just before the shop opens. They no longer want to be up at 3 am to make it. If you find a baker who still makes his own bread, use him – they are really a dying breed.
Hi Sue
It’s true about the baguettes – I’m lucky to be surrounded by good bakers in my area…
Hi Brian
Thanks for your comment. I’m sorry you found my opinion ‘abusive’.
No one is saying you must love all aspects of France unconditionally – that would be ridiculous. I’m not dictating terms but I am offering a passioned opinion regarding the original point of the Guardian article, and I quote “hundreds of Britons living in France are now using the internet to order their food, including many French specialities, from British supermarkets”.
It is up to you whether you want to support manufacturing on a local level or not. My piece, if you read it more closely, was specifically aimed at one of the most important areas of our adopted country’s culture – that of cuisine. This isn’t about your pipe tobacco or car – already imported raw materials and manufactured goods – this is about bringing coals to newcastle, or Bergerac wine to Bergerac…
Incidentally, I take a very keen interest on the origins of the items I buy.
Silly man. I have a number of French friends in the UK and all either receive care parcels from home or have goods delivered from France. In these economic times, most people who have access to the internet will shop around for purchases and try and save where they can.
But most importantly, I feel that articles and blogs such as these are extremely damaging to relations between the French and the Expats living here…I can’t understand why they are highlighted by Brit’s living here – such posts then get into French press and are blown up out of propotion…prior to reading such petty rubbish, I’m sure most French don’t question where we buy our marmite (or care) but once exagerated, the situation can cause bad feeling – i don’t know why any person would want to do this. If you wan’t to get petty about contributing to France – the social security contributions of expats here (some working on contracts overseas, for example IT contractors, supporting family in France) amount to billions.
Once again, I simply can’t understand why an expat would want to cause bad feeling between his countrymen and nationals in the country he or she is living in.
Hi Louise
“Once again, I simply can’t understand why an expat would want to cause bad feeling between his countrymen and nationals in the country he or she is living in.”
I think doing all the grocery shopping in UK supermarkets and bypassing the local economy causes bad feeling.
I agree with most of what you say. Shopping exclusively from the Uk is daft! There are things that we miss from the UK , sorry to say decent tea. Not PG, I prefer Yorkshire tea. I frequenntly take French products to the UK for French friends living there. So its natural that the reverse applies!
In the UK most towns and city have shops that cater for ethnic minorities. I think to say ‘what’s British food ‘ is a little out of touch. What the UK food industry is good at is fusion cuisine, blending tastes from many cultures.British food has made huge progress in the last 20 years
Its also a stereotype to assume that all the French eat well. Many eat processed foods, or shop cheaply and like junk foods. Lets not forget McDonalds has more stores in France then anywhere else in Europe.
Hi Alan
I agree – the proliferation of fast and junk food is astonishing
A more reasoned blog post, by Peregrinations, on the same subject here
It’s simple me ole mate, the food prices over here have gone ballistic since joining the monopoly money ‘euro’. Have you not come across ‘la crise’ ? Simply balancing the books…..but try telling that to the previous governmenr anglais!
Actually I was a victim of ‘la crise’, but that’s another story…
This is just silly. A recent French documentary stated that London was the sixth largest French city with a French population of around 40, 000. They mainly live around the Frenchified part of Kensington and send their kids to the local French Lycee. They have opened French cafés, restaurants and bakers…. so why the hell did they move to the UK?
I’ve been living in Hérault for the last 10 years. I rarely buy British produce, as I get most stuff locally, but I really object to the inverted snobbery that criticised those that do. The north African population buy their food from their halal butchers and grocery stores and rarely buy from the French supermarkets. I hear no outrage about this. Quite right too. All over Great Britain there are shops for migrant populations and nobody criticises them. Why should we? I used to love going to Southall to buy meat and spices. I used to go the Spanish deli in Portobello Road and loved the Italian deli in Kensal Green.
I was born in London, but my parents and all my family are Irish. I would no begrudge them their Kimberley biscuits or Barry’s Tea bags. My mother always went to the local Irish butcher!
If London had good weather, I would never have moved to the south of France. Get off your high horse. It’s not all about the food. I’ve some some of the worst meals I’ve ever eaten in France and even the best are only just on a par with what’s available in London.
If people are on a tight budget and it’s cheaper to buy from the UK, so be it!
Hi Annie
Thanks for your thoughts…
I lived in London for many years, and lived next door to ‘Little France’ in Kensington for a while too. Frankly I found their circumstances bizarre too, and yet at least they were running local businesses in west London that benefitted everyone. Admittedly they are limited to the more wealthy, but hey, it is Kensington. My other half too, who is French, lived in west London for 9 years but she chose to integrate with British culture and I’m sure she’d agree that she grew to love it. For her there was no question of joining the French expat community – that just wasn’t what living in a different culture was about for her.
And Annie, you illustrate my point perfectly – you rarely buy British produce, as you buy most stuff locally; you didn’t import your entire groceries from Spain just because they were cheaper did you? And again, I find I’m repeating myself over and over – I’m not suggesting you can’t have your Kimberely biscuits or Barry’s tea bags – but I am suggesting importing all your groceries via a monopolising UK supermarket is lazy.
And, honestly, if the only reason you moved was for the weather, then this discussion isn’t really your argument at all is it?
Oh, you purists…
Everybody’s gotta be somewhere.
I came to France because I wanted to live somewhere other than the UK, and France appealed for various reasons, and still does, now I live here.
However, I am the same person as I was in the UK – my values, likes and dislkes are the same. I didn’t come here to be French (pseudo or otherwise), and I never will be or want to be.
There are many things available to me in the world, and few of them are made in France, so I buy what I want, and like, from wherever I can get them, and for the cheapest price. That also applies to food. I like some , but not all French food. I happen to think that decent French cuisine is a thing of the past, and they murder vegetables.
So, if they want sell me things, they should learn about MY buying criteria, or I’ll buy elsewhere. Simple.
France isn’t perfect, not are the French. We co-exist, but at a healthy distance. I just happen to like living in the part of their country that appeals to me. If they want migrate to the UK, they’re welcome, and if they want to import the things they like from France, that’s fine, too.
But I refuse to be a stereotype – I’m me, and to me that’s all that matters.
So I have no axe to grind, no pretexts to live up to, and no standards imposed by others that I have to adhere to.
And I’m enjoying myself.
Hi Correze
Agreed on the veg – I will have to set a better example…
And I appreciate your autonomy
Amen to that!
How I agree with Enid Wilson and we too have lived here for 8 years. The reason we came to live here was to enjoy the quieter life style which is partly brought about by the lack of consumerism so blatant in England. The supermarkets are all the same offering so much cut price food that it just encourages people to buy and eat more. When I visit our family in England I admit to bringing back ‘goodies’ not avaiilable over here or are extortionately priced but this happens the world over with people wanting a treat of their favourite foods. If I didn’t visit England I would never order food to be brought over, this seems so crazy to me, what is the point of living here if you don’t endorse the culture which includes eating what is only available in the Supermarkets. I now find the idea of everything fresh you require being available all year around in England uninviting and enjoy eating what is fresh and readily available much more interesting. Come on Brits, cut back on processed food delivered to your door, support your local boulangerie which offers fresh bread daily and enjoy your local wine!
Thanks Christine
That’s very refeshing and honest of you…